[PLUG] Mailing list issues

Anukalp anukalp.desai at gmail.com
Wed Jan 2 14:41:46 PST 2013

Mr. Jogalekar, I agree with what Sunil Bhaskar has said. Replying
because I am one of 1200 users who is interested to have my queries
answered on plug list and do not want to be neutral.

On 1/3/13, Sudhanwa Jogalekar <sudhanwa.com at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Mandar Vaze / मंदार वझे
> <mandarvaze at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sudhanwa,
>> It was great to finally hear from "the other side".
> "the other side" ?? What is it? I am not representing any side. I told
> what I know/remember.
> In the earlier years, I was not even knowing who were the moderators.
> For me, it was not even required to know. Out of the 12+ odd years of
> the list, I was not there (admin/mod) at all for most of the time.
> Even today, if required, I do mail admin job only in very rare
> situations. (That too, releasing my own critical mails is being
> objected now)
>> If PLUG is indeed supposed to be "very popular" mailing list then we would
>> see enough discussions about linux.
> Popular is a generic and relative word. Start using SMS lingo on the
> list, it will be popular instantaneously. No need to talk about FOSS
> anymore to become popular.
>> Quick look at the archives tell me that in 2006-07 monthly messages were
>> 150+, in recent times it is < 50
>> I leave it up to each of the pluggie to interpret the numbers, and come to
>> their own conclusion.
> During that time, people really had many problems right from
> selection/getting a distro, installation and devices support etc. Now,
> CD/DVDs are available everywhere and they properly install/run out of
> the box without any hardware issues. As such, the very basic purpose
> of initial support for the users is lost quite some time back. Also,
> thanks to LUG activities in the background, FOSS is almost everywhere
> in most of the University courses. As such, the outreach and
> additional support required at that time is not required now. However,
> people do get to list more, when they realise project work on Linux
> can fetch good marks :-)
> By the way, less number of mails and overall less activity is the
> general trend across all the LUGs and not only for PLUG.
>> Personally, I think while a public mailing list should be spam free, it
>> be useful.
>> No one is asking to "remove all filters" - but some rules can be relaxed
>> (one such touchy issue is top posting)
>> What is more important ? Being useful or sticking to the principle and
>> being
>> shunning away the community ? A point to ponder.
> Please understand that top posting can not be trapped. If a mail is
> already held up for any reason for moderator approval, only then it
> can be seen and rejected for top posting. Any top posting mail can
> reach directly if it is not trapped because of filters (or for users
> with moderation bit set).
> And even if one gets rejection for top posting, why the person can not
> take it as a basic etiquette of the list? Why he/she want to continue
> top posting further?
>>> added by default for every new list member. In any case, new members
>>> were supposed to be on the list for some time, understand what is
>>> happening and then start posting to the list. The typical time frame
>>> for this was about a month or so. After that, the new member was
>>> supposed to send mail to admins to remove the moderation for them.
>>> Well, as usual, very few people really understood this and became
>>> unhappy about it. Unfortunately, the unhappy trend still continues.
>> Is this practice still "on" ? http://www.plug.org.in/mailing-list/ does
>> not
>> mention this - Especially that part that "the new member was
>> supposed to send mail to admins to remove the moderation for them"
> I think it was there somewhere/some time. No idea when/if it is lost.
> May be it was mentioned in the joining mail to the user.
>>> moderation in their own perspectives. On the PLUG mailing list, it is
>>> a practice that the mail will either reach to the list as_it_is (that
>>> means without any moderation/editing)
>> I think this needs to be explained better to the world. Most people
>> (including myself) understand moderation as "reject unwanted emails"
>> no one thinks moderation as "editing before sending out to the list".
>> Later
>> is practically impossible (in terms of time)
>> I suggest the website is updated to say "emails are sent to the list as-is
>> without editing" rather than saying "list of unmoderated"
> My understanding is coming from whatever I heard/understood and was
> told by the seniors that time in the initial phases. My understanding
> still continues the same way. If those oldies have changed their
> thoughts, I can not do anything about it.
>>> Apart from a very few people on the list who are raising questions
>>> about the mailing list, I have not come across anyone who is raising
>>> the issue.
>> That may be because very few people are persistent enough to raise voice
>> for
>> what they believe. Others' emails are "rejected" my mailman :) Thus giving
>> impression that "very few people" raising concern.
> I don't think any mail is rejected by mailman or the list admin/s just
> because it has words against the functioning the the list/PLUG.
>>> Well, it is upto the mailing list members to decide how the list
>>> should work. If majority feels that it should be more open, let it be.
>> Only if majority is heard. Not if majority emails are rejected by the list
>> (humans or filters or combination, it doesn't matter)
>> It seems several people have discussed this issue offline as well - but no
>> change.
> Well, there are more than 1200 people on the list. We see just about
> 10 people on this (or any such other) thread. Either so many people do
> not understand what is happening or they are not interested or they
> want to remain neutral.
> -Sudhanwa
> ps: I am not taking any stand here. Just stating the facts.
> --
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